Erica Nash 0:00
Hey and welcome back to another episode of next level course creator. Today I am chatting with Dani Paige, a launch copywriter and strategist who also has a program called sales page Prep School, where she teaches copywriters the art of writing launch copy for course creators.
Erica Nash 0:19
If you have or want to have a high touch program, I think you'll really love what Dani has to share. In this episode, we're talking about course iterations and updates, when to update why to update. We also found that we share some really strong values and philosophy around the importance of client experience in a course or program in Dani shares a little about her very robust process in place to offer an amazing client experience. And then we're also talking about something new on the podcast, which is course certifications. Dani just launched her certification offer for her students. So I got to pick her brain a little about that. And she offered some insight into things you might want to consider if you're thinking of offering a certification. All in all, it was a really great episode, and I think you're gonna love it.
Erica Nash 1:09
But before we get into it, I wanted to share with you that the founding member launch for my group program, Course Design 101, is open right now. It's currently open for presale and the doors closed on June 30. If you want to create a high touch program that gets measurable results and offers an amazing client experience without taking up all of your time, course design 101 was created just for you. It's got a streamlined course curriculum, group coaching and a private community and this first round is going to be amazing.
Erica Nash 1:43
You can find out more at Erica nash.com/course. And I'll also include that link in the show notes. And of course, feel free to email or DM me with any questions that you might have. But I'm super excited and I really hope to see you there. Alright, let's get into today's episode.
Erica Nash 2:07
Welcome to next level course creator. My name is Erica and this is a podcast about creating premium online programs that participants never want to leave. If you want a program that serves the whole person satisfies participant needs and creates brand ambassadors who tell all their friends about how awesome you are. This is for you. Listen in as we go beyond conversion numbers sold out launches and five figure months to get to the heart of the matter. Taking care of the people who have already said yes, let's go
Erica Nash 2:44
I am so excited to be joined today by launch copywriter and strategist Dani Paige. She helps course creators write un-boring launch copy so that they can convert more students and create more impact with their online programs. She also helps emerging copywriters learn the high paying skill of launch copy with her signature program sales page prep school, which is what we're going to talk about today. Dani, welcome to the show.
Dani Paige 3:11
Yay. Erica, thank you for having me pumped to be here.
Erica Nash 3:14
Yes. So before we get started, just kind of give us a brief intro into who you are and what you do inside of sales page prep school.
Dani Paige 3:25
Yeah, so like you said, I am a launch copywriter. So I help emerging copywriters really hone in on the skill of sales copy and sales writing and create a really thriving sustainable business from it. I feel like I have a complete dream job or working from home online with these just super rad entrepreneurs who are up to some cool things and in the online world.
Erica Nash 3:48
It really is such a dream that we get to like work from the most comfortable, the most comfortable place. What is this even? It's amazing.
Dani Paige 3:59
So good.
Erica Nash 4:00
So tell me a little bit about how, you know, sales page prep school is for emerging copywriters. And so who exactly would you say is an emerging copywriter? Like what does that who is that? And what does that kind of look like?
Dani Paige 4:18
Yeah, that's a great question. So a lot of copywriters, whether they're just starting out whether they've been in the process for a year or so they're still trying to sort out their processes. So people who I call emerging is, you know, maybe they've had a couple of clients, but they know that for me, for the people I'm speaking to, they really want to hone in on sales speeches. So maybe they've written one before, maybe they haven't. But overall, they just want more confidence on it. They want to make sure that they're doing it right. So they're able to get their clients, the best conversions. So that's really the people that I'm speaking to inside this program.
Erica Nash 4:55
And you have you know, you have a curriculum and you you coach them Men. And so what does that do you have a community as well?
Dani Paige 5:03
Yep. Yeah, we have a year long Facebook community and monthly asked me anything calls. I feel like that's a huge aspect of it too, because everyone always has questions, what's a jump into it? And once they have a real client, that's sometimes when the overwhelm sinks in. So yeah, community is a huge aspect of this.
Erica Nash 5:23
I love that. And I totally agree. I think that, you know, there are so many things that I mean, let's be honest, right? Like, anybody can kind of learn anything if they go to the internet, and they search hard enough. But where the real value is, is the support with implementation when people are able to come in and be like, Oh, no, I ran into this huge thing. Because honestly, otherwise, most of the time, probably what would happen is if they were by themselves, learning those things, they would get stuck, not know how to get unstuck, and then not be able to move forward or like totally just quit and like, give up and pivot or do something else, or, you know, whatever that may be. So that support is so super valuable.
Dani Paige 6:02
For sure. And like the second guessing, oh, my gosh, it just happens so much in the online world or, you know, trying to see what other people are doing and then really just a hit to your confidence do because you're just so unsure if so, yeah, having other people so like surrounded surrounding you who are in the same spot are really rallying behind you. I feel like it really makes a huge difference.
Erica Nash 6:02
Yeah, I totally agree. I was literally having this conversation like 20 minutes ago with a friend, just talking about how people who are not, especially people who are not in the online business world, but also people who don't know exactly what you're doing. They just don't have enough context to really like, give you advice. And so if you're like, like, as much as you know, we love our families and our friends. And if they're not in the trenches with you, like they really don't have the information that they need. And that, you know, I'm not sure that they can get it unless they then are also doing the same thing. Like if they're not in the trenches with you, like, they're not the best place to go for advice. And so being able to surround yourself with people who know exactly what it is that you're going through, and can support your your vision and your mission with, like curiosity and wonder instead of judgment is just really beautiful. I love how you said that.
Dani Paige 7:25
Yes, so true.
Erica Nash 7:27
So let's talk a little bit about sales page prep school. So in terms of one of the things that you told me before was that it has had multiple iterations. So can we just talk about like, what what that is Tell me a little bit about how it started and kind of the journey into where it is now.
Dani Paige 7:49
Yeah, you bet. It really has kind of worked, I guess, over the years. So I first had the idea for sales pages, the sales pages was really what got me like put me on the map, I'd say as a copywriter. So I knew that what I wanted to help people with was always going to be around sales pages as well. So I had the idea, I believe fall of 2020 and beta launched it in January of 2021. And it was originally actually for course creators and I had copywriters like asking me about it, but I was saying no, it was like No, it's for first graders I honestly I think I had some like impostor syndrome around it like who am I to teach other copywriters? So that took a bit for sure.
Dani Paige 8:31
But yeah, originally it was for course creators and it was going really well like they were coming in and they were learning to rate the page and then going off to sell their program, which is obviously a good thing but I was also feeling kind of compelled to do more. I guess like when I started talking with copywriters, I just knew that I could help them more with like life changing transformations, the whole like business side of things, finding clients, leaving their nine to five gaining that confidence, rather than just helping with that sales page that I was doing for coarse graders. So that's what kind of got me thinking of shifting the program a little bit. So I ended up beta testing it to copywriters in 2022 and it was an immediate hit. And it's funny because it's relatively the same program, just a complete shift in the audience. So that's kind of how it's evolved over the years and now I exclusively just offer it to copywriters.
Erica Nash 9:30
So interesting, and I really love how the shifts that you made then allowed you to like really kind of it created some longevity for for the program. You know, like it really allowed for you to have some retention and continue to support these students and really allow for them to become these then super fans who probably buy into everything that you do now. and will probably purchase everything that you, you know, put out in the future. So that that is really, really cool. What did you learn in all of the updating that you did?
Dani Paige 10:13
Hey, yeah, I smile, because I think every time I update the program, I think I get that much better. I like streamlining it. I get kind of ruthless with the content, like, do they really need to know this? I think at first, like, we want to share everything, because we have so much good knowledge on this subject. But every time I go in, I learned to cut back and like really streamline things to help give them that transformation. You know that much better that much quicker.
Erica Nash 10:41
Oh my gosh, I love I love that so much. And I could like stand on a soapbox and talk about that for ever. And I love that you use the word ruthless. Like that's, that's exactly how we talk about when you streamline programs, you do have to be ruthless. And like, for, for lack of a better like this is kind of crude, but talking about like killing your darlings, like you really have to go in and you cannot be married to the content. Because when you do it hurts so much when you have to let some of it go. And like like you said, like, we just know so much about all the things and we know all of the tiny little things that maybe are not totally necessary to get them. And so figuring out how to distill all that down can be so challenging. So I love that every single time that you've updated it, you've made more changes. Do you feel like you will be updating it again in the future?
Dani Paige 11:37
I think I Yes. As a short answer. I don't think it's ever like arrived and perfect, especially in our online world. Things are always changing. And like even with AI right now, I definitely want to put a component in of that of how we can use that tool to help us. So I think there's always things that I for sure want to be adding to the program just kind of has we evolve as copywriters and business owners as well.
Erica Nash 12:01
Yeah, totally agree. And that's interesting that you bring up AI like that is it's everywhere right now, right? And like people are really kind of freaking out about, you know, these feelings of being replaced, or whatever the case may be. And I've kind of taken a deep dive into chat GPT. And it has been so interesting. And like, I won't go into all of the experiments that I've run, because I've done a bunch of them. But in short, what I learned is, it can only do what it does, because I know what I know. And I know what to ask it and I know how to use that information. And so it would be so valuable. And I could see for copywriters, how like that could really be extremely intimidating to like have this bot that can like come up with all of this stuff. But well, if they if they just have the right prompts, and know how to use that information, how powerful a team, they could make a copywriter and chat GPT so that's that's really that's really cool.
Dani Paige 13:05
I totally agree. And that's just said, it's like what we need to have the knowledge to be able to ask it what we want. And then when it produces the copy, we need to be able to know is this actually good copy? Is that optimized? And so these are things that? Yeah, it's a fantastic tool. And exactly like you said, a great team, like combination to produce some stellar copy. Yeah, for sure.
Erica Nash 13:28
So let's talk a little bit about client experience. This is something that I am super passionate about. Because I just I just it's so important that when clients come into a program that they feel they're looking for, yes, to learn how to do something, but they're also looking for a place to like, be seen and heard and loved and feel like they belong. And so tell me a little bit about the client experience inside sales page prep school.
Dani Paige 13:58
Yeah, and I think this is what originally drew me to you because we definitely have this in common, wanting to give fantastic client experiences. So I do have a robust like onboarding sequence. So when they first join, they, they go through an onboarding survey for one. And that's just for me, they've been able to learn about them and who they are as a person and why they joined and these sorts of things. They also have an initial assessment. So really understanding where they're at in their business. And then they go through like at six months, there's an assessment as well as 12 month they go through that same just a very quick, you know, few question assessments, just so I can like track it, how far they've come and track the progress for them.
Dani Paige 14:42
And then there's also like wins in between that which I track, like when they get their first client. They complete a form inside the dashboard, which they actually receive like a gift in the mail for So there's those sort of things happening as well. And then over like the first month inside the program they receive In a very like specific campaign of emails from me, depending on where they're currently at, in, like in their sales page journey, if they're still looking for a client versus actually writing their first sales page, so they kind of go down different paths in my email system. And those emails, like help meet them where they're at, essentially. And then otherwise, like they continue receiving Monday emails for me for the first handful of months, actually.
Dani Paige 15:28
And then I'll come back come back to like monthly, or bi weekly, I guess, during like the rest of the duration of the program, the course itself is 12 months long. So I really want them like to come in, feel welcomed, get that transformation, keep them engaged, and then graduate them having had these really stellar client experiences. So that's kind of a kind of a roundabout way of explaining all of the like little customer touches throughout their journey.
Erica Nash 15:57
That is amazing. And I know that that probably to somebody that's listening that maybe doesn't have something like that set up, they're probably thinking like, oh, my gosh, that's a lot. So how do you? How do you handle all of that? How do you handle like the tracking and, you know, obviously, there's a, there's sort of an initial time investment into like setting everything up. But the tracking that is that manual?
Dani Paige 16:26
Most of it is done inside my dashboard, actually, I have set up kind of like gamification inside so I can really track where they are, where they are in the program, and then have like checkpoints throughout, like where they're at with their clients or whatnot. And I will say, like, this didn't all happen in the first iteration, right. I've been doing this for several years now. So just implementing a little bit more as I go every time. I also do have a like manual checklist, or a manual spreadsheet to keep track of things more like the little wins as well, because there's always little things happening in their business too. So I guess it's a combination of automatically inside my program dashboard, as well as some manual spreadsheets.
Erica Nash 17:08
That is very cool. And I love that, you know, you you are looking at the big details, but also the smaller details too, because like those small details matter, and sometimes are the difference between a one program that's like similar to another in content, you know, like, that could be the difference maker and is so powerful when you really look at it, because it just really like it like speaks to the heart, right? It really does make people feel like, oh, like, I've made this investment. And this person actually cares about me, I'm just not, I'm not just like another milestone in their income goals, you know, and it's just more of like that human element. So I really love that.
Dani Paige 17:56
Yeah, it's so true. Like, well, we can follow up in our community with, like, I think us as course creators are always really good with asking the first question, but then those posts kind of get buried and we don't follow up. So when we're able to actually like follow up and be like, hey, so and so like, how did this end up going with the client? I do think that makes a really big difference in their client experience as well.
Erica Nash 18:18
No, I totally agree. Absolutely. So this having this kind of client experience, how would you say it has impacted your business goals and just like your personal life in general?
Dani Paige 18:32
Oh, I would say like client experience has always been huge for me. On a personal standpoint, like years ago, I actually had someone reach out to me and be like, Dani, you should create a course on customer experience. Because I just I genuinely love gift giving and like making people feel important. So being able to incorporate like aspects of that into my programs, it feels good, and it feels very much like me.
Dani Paige 18:58
So that's, I guess, like the personal side of things, but regarding my business, so like how it impacts my business goals, I guess is that the question? I like I don't think the gift giving or like the one on one personally, a personalization. I don't I don't talk about it too terribly much on the sales page. I think it's more of like a surprise and delight thing. So I don't know if it's, like not as much on the front sales page. But it's more about when people are inside the program. I know that it makes a huge difference. It helps with getting referrals and keeping people engaged throughout the entire year. So I yeah, I know for sure that this stuff helps in the long run for each and every member that comes through.
Erica Nash 19:40
Yeah, absolutely. And it is it goes a long way to you know, creating those those superfans, and you know, it's going to decrease oftentimes things like asking for refunds and that kind of stuff.
Dani Paige 19:57
So yeah, yeah, I do. It's definitely helped with, like people on payment plans for sure actually keeping up with them. When they get these extra little things in the mail or these surprises and delights that I say I Yeah, it definitely makes a difference for that stuff, too. Sure.
Erica Nash 20:15
So you shared recently on Instagram that you added a certification to the program, I would love to just like take a deep dive into what the certification is, what the process is how you went about, like, deciding to do this and just how you implement it, like just all the things.
Dani Paige 20:38
Yeah, for sure. And yeah, there is a lot to unpack. So maybe I'll start with why like why the heck I decided to do this, I think there was really two core reasons. So the first one was like, my goal is to help these copywriters create and grow like truly sustainable businesses, obviously, through learning to write high converting sales pages. But also once they know this skill, like they can branch off into other offerings to write like full launch campaigns, sales, page audits, webinar scripts coaching, like the the works. So while I really only teach this like one specific service, this truly is a building like a business building course. And so by providing these milestones and targets for them to hit, like throughout their course duration, which are some of the prerequisites for the certification, I'm able to help them lead them into the direction of a true CEO.
Dani Paige 21:33
So like making sure that they have an email list and a freebie and are doing all of these other things as well. So creating this certification helped really give them like more of a roadmap of what they need to actually run a sustainable business. So that was really like the one a core thing was to help them in that side. And then secondly, to these are the copywriters that I now promote through I have a service called Find Your copywriter. It's where I help the course graders find sales page copywriters. And so I wanted to make sure that that the copywriters I'm teaching are like understanding and utilizing the processes that I teach, right, so I feel more confident to in promoting them. So now like I can confidently say, all the copywriters that I promote and recommend are certified and vetted and have proven themselves in the industry. So it really is kind of like a nice Win win all around for all parties with the certification.
Erica Nash 22:34
That is so cool. Are there are or what are the requirements for having or getting the certification and then keeping it?
Dani Paige 22:44
Yes. So to get the certification, it's there's kind of three big things that I look at one is just like the general requirements. And that is, they need to have had like written multiple sales pages. So they need to have that experience under their belt, they need to have charged a certain price, I was finding a lot of copywriters wouldn't undercharge themselves. So I actually get them, like make sure that they're actually charging at least four figures like at least $1,000 for sales page, they also need to have a freebie in place. And they'll submit it. And I'll review that they also submit the proposal that they send out to their leads, because I want to make sure that they're sending out no professional looking proposals. So that's one aspect.
Dani Paige 23:26
The other kind of pillar is the skill requirement. So they actually will submit a sales page and I will review it to make sure that they understand and get how to write these pages. And then they do a knowledge requirement to so I asked a couple of questions regarding sales pages and launches, like all things that they would have learned inside the program. So a bit of like an A knowledge test, I guess, at the end as well. So those are the requirements to join the certification and it needs to happen within the one year of them being inside the program. And that's kind of where I am right now to be perfectly honest, I don't have it set in stone, how to keep it up. I'm sure there'll be some sort of requirement to keep like the badge on their website and that sort of thing. So still kind of in the growing process of that, but at the moment Yeah. We're putting copywriters through the certification right now.
Erica Nash 24:20
It's so exciting. Thank you for sharing all of that. How many of your students choose to or have chosen so far to take that route?
Erica Nash 24:30
Yeah, so I actually just opened like officially opened up applications and we had five come through this week. So I know people are super excited to go through this certification because there's a lot of perks for them to I mean, I mentioned the badge, but just being able to, like stand up and say I'm certified. I have this like under my belt, I know helps in their confidence and their marketing as well. And then of course I'm going to be helping them with leads where I can. These are the copy letters that I will promote. So there's definitely lots in it for them to to get the certification. So, yeah, I mean, my goal is to put everyone through the certification, that's for sure. I like as their coach and leader, I want to help them get into the position that they are able to apply for that certification.
Erica Nash 25:18
That's amazing. And I mean, it really just sounds like a win win for everybody.
Dani Paige 25:23
That's the goal anyways, yeah.
Erica Nash 25:25
Yeah for sure. So if another course creator wanted to add a certification to their program, what recommendations? Would you have caveats would you have?
Dani Paige 25:38
I think that's a great question. So I would say to them, to make sure that it's a, like a kind of a three way beneficial, like, it's, it's beneficial three ways, I guess, is what I'm trying to say so beneficial to your students, for one, like, Why do they want it? Making sure that it's beneficial to you? Like, why do you want to give out this certification, and then making sure that it's beneficial to the people that your students serve? So like, why would their audience benefit from hiring or working with people who have this certification? So I kind of ask them, make sure they ask themselves, those three questions. And once those are all clear and valid, I think that's how you know that it can be a really powerful certification for your course. Because truthfully, like I don't think every course needs a certification, but the ones who do can can really, really benefit from it.
Erica Nash 26:30
Yeah, that's great advice. So this is a final question that I love to ask every course creator that comes on here. In keeping with the theme of advice, if you could go back and chat with course creator, Dani from a year ago, what advice would you give her,
Dani Paige 26:50
I would tell her that everything takes time. And that's okay. And most notably, like getting our courses and our offers out the door, it takes time. And especially when we see other course creators who are like pumping out offers left and right, I've literally been working, or I've been offering this same one offer speech prep school for quite a few years now. And I've just been refining it and shifting it and making it better. And that has served me well. So that's really what I would say is like, it's okay, that these things take time, you don't need to offer a million new things every day, just, you know, hone in on that one thing and get really good at it.
Erica Nash 27:33
That's such good advice as well. And I think that there really is something to be said about, you know, like, trusting what you've created and trusting that that it was a good idea. And refining it, just so that it is even stronger than it was you know, when you when you first created it, now you have you know, data and information that you can like use to refine it, instead of like playing the comparison game that we oftentimes get sucked into and like, well, this person has five courses. So I must need, you know, X amount or, or whatever it may be. So I think that is really great advice, not just for Dani from a year ago.
Dani Paige 28:14
Why thank you.
Erica Nash 28:16
So thank you so much for coming on here and talking about your program. And just a little bit about your journey and all of that. I really appreciate it. I know everybody else does as well. If you would just please let everybody know where they can find you.
Dani Paige 28:34
For sure. So I well I hang out most on Instagram, I'm at Dani Paige dot online. And I also have like if you are a course creator and curious about hiring copywriter, and like understanding what you might need to hire a sales page copywriter, I do have a free resource offers dot Dani paige.com/outsource where I go through all of that like what to look for where to find that what you should even be paying them. So you can go ahead and pick that up as well and hope hopefully it's super helpful in the process for you.
Erica Nash 29:09
Amazing that sounds like some great info and I will absolutely include all of the links and everything in the show notes so you guys can can find her and get all of her amazing resources. Yeah, go check her out. So Dani, thank you so much. This was a blast.
Dani Paige 29:26
Thank you for having me Erica so much fun.
Erica Nash 29:31
Well, I hope today's episode brought a little clarity and community to your next level course journey. If you enjoyed listening, please consider subscribing and leaving a review. And if you'd like to connect, be sure to find me over on Instagram at Erica Nash design or on my website at Erica nash.com. I would love to hear from you. All right, you guys go forth, educate and change lives. I'll see you next time.